Do you know how to ask for help? Do you know how to assess your needs as a late-diagnosed adult in the workplace? How do you ask for help when you’re not sure what kind of help you need? And at what point do you share about your ADHD or autism diagnosis in the workplace?
Hi, I’m Brett, The AuDHD Boss. With over 12 years of leadership training and experience, and my own diagnosis of ADHD and autism. I focus on ADHD and autism in the workplace—what we call AuDHD.
In this conversation, I continue my discussion with Dr. Bowen Marshall, PhD, a licensed psychotherapist, author, and career coach specializing in ADHD, autism, and neurodivergent career development. Dr. Marshall helps neurodivergent individuals navigate the complexities of career demands, supporting ADHDers, AuHDers, and autistics in finding and creating systems, workflows, and leadership styles that help them succeed and thrive in the workplace and beyond.
This is part two of our conversation. Here, we begin a discussion about assessing workplace needs as late-diagnosed neurodivergent employees.
**FAQs**
1. **What is AuDHD?**
AuDHD refers to individuals who have both autism and ADHD diagnoses.
2. **How can late-diagnosed adults assess their needs in the workplace?**
Late-diagnosed adults can start by reflecting on their daily challenges, identifying which tasks or environments are difficult, and considering what adjustments could make work more manageable.
3. **When should I disclose my ADHD or autism diagnosis at work?**
Disclosure is a personal choice and may depend on workplace culture, your comfort level, and whether you need accommodations.
4. **What kind of help can neurodivergent employees ask for?**
Neurodivergent employees can request various supports, such as flexible workflows, clear communication, or specific accommodations tailored to their needs.
5. **Who is Dr. Bowen Marshall?**
Dr. Bowen Marshall is a licensed psychotherapist, author, and career coach specializing in ADHD, autism, and neurodivergent career development.
**Highlights from our conversation**
– The conversation addresses how late-diagnosed AuDHD adults can identify and communicate their workplace needs.
– Strategies for self-assessment and help-seeking are discussed.
– Considerations around when and how to disclose a diagnosis at work are explored.
– Dr. Bowen Marshall shares expertise on supporting neurodivergent employees in developing systems and workflows for success.
– Practical examples and advice are provided for neurodivergent professionals navigating workplace challenges.
Bowen:
So I think the question I have, first and foremost, is this: because I work with so many late-diagnosed people, I want to put that out there. They don’t know what they need.
Brett:
Yeah.
Bowen:
And so I think one of the things I work a lot with is what’s hard for people: it’s like, I have been doing this one process that got me results. Typically, it’s a dirty dopamine process. I’m using stress and anxiety to give me adrenaline, which pushes dopamine and norepinephrine, right? Because dopamine’s the orienting neurotransmitter. It’s not the pleasure neurotransmitter. That’s one half how we get it. Most people who are neurodivergent, who are untreated, unmedicated, get it through that dirty dopamine, that negative cycle response. But that burns their brains out over time.
Brett:
Because
Bowen:
Your brains are calibrated into a stress response. And so not only are they burnt out, but often because they were shamed in a masking, shamed into taking care of themselves, they don’t know how to ask for help. They have no idea what level one support autism means in terms of like, wait, I need to figure out the edges of what I can’t do and then figure out how to ask for it. And then go through the process of reasonable accommodations in corporate America. Are people able to define and be honest about what they need?
Brett:
What
Bowen:
Those support leverages are? Because that’s what level one support says. It says, “I can live a full life, but then they need some support in some things, in some areas.”
Brett:
Yeah. I think the most difficult thing about that, though, especially for a late-diagnosed adult, is you get your diagnosis. Well, I mean, you kind of hinted this on Substack the other day. Even if you’re not getting a diagnosis, if you’re self-diagnosed or realized it late on your own, you’re starting to figure that out. And then if you do get a formal diagnosis, most often people get the diagnosis, and they’re like, “Okay, here’s your diagnosis, off you go. ” And you’re just sort of sitting there going, “Well, now what? ” And I can hear so many people kind of listening to this conversation going, “Yeah, but how do I, without knowing how to get to the right therapist or how to get to the right tool, how do I start that journey at whatever age I’m at?” Because I think I get so many comments on my YouTube videos from people in their 60s and 70s; I even had someone in their 80s comment on one of my videos the other day.
Brett:
I just got diagnosed, and I’m stuck in this position of What’s the point? You’ve told me too late in my life. What am I supposed to do now? How do we help the people who are sitting in that place at that late stage of their diagnosis?
Bowen:
I always tell people that a diagnosis is either the beginning or an early midpoint, and that, especially if you’re dealing with a late-stage thymia, the notion that you’re supposed to let your emotions be your guides, well, I’m not connected to my emotions.
Brett:
So
Bowen:
I actually tell people, let your exhaustion be your guide. I like
Brett:
That. Yeah.
Bowen:
What makes you most tired throughout the day? And actually chart it, write it down. What are the things that you dread the most? What are the things that … It’s really hard to see glimmers when you’re in a depressed place, but if you can articulate your exhaustion, you actually start to get a sense of what you need to move away from.
Bowen:
And then to not feel guilty for being exhausted, for not being able to push through, to realize that, yeah, at one point you had to survive by being a people pleaser, but to do an assessment. Do you have three month savings? Do you own your own home? Do you have a partner that you can talk with and say, “Hey, I need to take six months off work. Do you have FMLA?” It’s not an easy road. It’s not in any way an easy road to go down, but to me, it’s this trade-off of, well, it’s six months or a year of autistic burnout and really letting yourself sink into that and letting your nervous system recalibrate and focus on moving away from the things that make you exhausted or it’s the rest of your life. And I don’t know, I realize those are stark terms. I realize there’s a lot of privilege embedded in all of those things, but that’s for people who are trying to navigate it on their own, listen to the exhaustion and it’s six months to a year or the rest of your life.
Brett:
Yeah. I love that, though, because when we listen to our exhaustion, I think about what I need to take a long nap afterward, or sleep for three days after that thing, or even, like, it’s preemptive exhaustion. I was just saying this the other day to somebody, like if I see a meeting on my calendar that I dread, I can feel that exhaustion start even before the meeting has, because I’m already pushing away from that thing, and that’s a body signal that I am tuning into that I can go, “Okay, I’m getting that. ” I know a lot of people struggle with disclosing in the workplace. A lot of people are always unsure about whether they should share about their ADHD or their autism. What thoughts do you have on that? Because I know for myself, I really, again, speaking of privilege, I was in a very privileged, more senior leadership position when I decided to disclose and I felt that I’m safe enough because I’m at a senior position and not everybody would have that kind of level of protection to feel safe enough to disclose, but a lot of people do struggle with wherever they are in their career to disclose.
Brett:
How do you feel about that?
Bowen:
If you feel likable and have evidence to support that you’re liked, that’s one area where you kind of like go, “I don’t know. Will disclosing make me less likable, managing other perceptions?” But I think that’s weird to play in history, especially with the increasing awareness where if people aren’t going to like you because you’re autistic, they’re going to dislike you because of a label or because of that whole amygdala response thing. And so I go with “disclose”-lean into it. If it’s causing you problems, if it’s causing you anxiety, if you’re starting to get feedback, get it documented, given that it’s something that they were aware of.
Bowen:
Because when you lean into it, when you give people an explanation, that’s not a cop out. That gives them something to do with their brain. I do social skills, work with people, and one of the things that a lot of people, a lot of my autistic clients, and I realized I used to struggle with this, but Vanessa Van Edwards, I just didn’t test things to be like, “Okay, what gets them to respond?” And I was working with a client who told a joke that didn’t land well, and he told me the response was just kind of awkward. And I said, “Do you ever just own the awkwardness? That was awkward.”
Brett:
Yeah.
Bowen:
Nine times out of 10, that works.
Brett:
If
Bowen:
You have that ability to recognize it’s awkward and just saying it, and what I found with most other people, autistic, ADHD, neurotypical people is … So they did this study, and I should know that statistics better, but I don’t, where they put people through job interviews, and they had three conditions. They had the job interview and received positive, negative, and neutral feedback. They trained all the interviewers to give the same predictable feedback. If it was positive, “Oh my God, best, great answer. Love it. Awesome. Next, negative, and then neutral, and giving you nothing, and they anticipated that positive feedback would be great. Negative feedback was the worst, and neutral feedback would be in the middle.” Wrong. Positive, yes. They were like, “Oh, I killed that interview. I’m going to get it. ” I don’t know if they knew it was a simulated interview. I’m like, “Oh, how did you manage the IRB around that?
Bowen:
” Whatever. Negatives, they were ticked, but at least they weren’t going to get the job.
Brett:
They knew what to do. Yeah. Yeah.
Bowen:
Versus the neutral people, they lost their minds. They were like, “Was it good? Was it bad? Tell me something. Tell me. ” And I often think about CPTSD, PTSD, they’re caused by trauma, but they’re actually arousal disorders. They’re the inability to downregulate because the threat is not gone. Well, ambiguity is a type of threat. And so what I see when people feel like they’re always that awkward person is they actually haven’t given enough information, enough social direction, to get the group to close the loop. So what you’re doing when you’re awkward, I’m awkward, and I tell people, “I’m ADHD.” Oh, I shouldn’t say that on there, but I’m AHL as hell. And I also have some really rigid, weird things that will come up throughout our friendship. When they come out, they have closure. They already have a narrative. It’s not like, oh,
Brett:
Owen’s
Bowen:
Usually super friendly, but I came to the bar after a full day of client list, and I am so overtaxed. I don’t talk to them. I just walk to the bar and slam a drink. And
Brett:
They’re
Bowen:
Like, “That’s weird.” Well, if I’ve already told them, you’re going to see me do some weird things when I’m overwhelmed. Take a shot. They have closure, and that closure reduces awkwardness. So I think coming out early, if you feel awkward or shielding those signals, is helpful because they’re going to have closure. Now, if they’re a company that’s going to manage you out, they were probably going to do it anyway.
Brett:
Yeah, yeah. And it was going to be a safe place to begin with. Yeah.
Bowen:
Yeah. One of my biggest things in circumstances like that, although it sucks and we need jobs, rejection is protection.
Brett:
Thanks to Bowen for taking the time to interview with me. It’s been really helpful for me to have this conversation with Bowen. If you haven’t checked out Bowen’s Substack, I strongly encourage you to do so. Some of the work there is absolutely incredible. Of course, be sure to follow Bowen on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram as well, but Substack is incredible, and I do hope you check it out. There are resources there that continue with some of the topics we discussed in this conversation, including how to start a productive ADHD therapy session. And for AuDHD truths, he won’t be gatekeeping. These are really great articles, just to name a few. Definitely go check those out. They’re in the description below. If the idea of understanding your needs at work resonates with you, I might also recommend my Drains and Sparks workbook, available in my YouTube shop.
Brett:
And I also have a free accommodations workbook. If you would like to learn more about assessing your accommodation needs or see what accommodations already exist for AuDHD employees, you can find that information in the description below as well. It’s a really great starting point if you’re not even sure where to begin with accommodations. If you have a question or topic you’d like for me to cover, let me know in the comments below. And if you’re interested in one-on-one coaching, my email is in the description. Subscribing helps this content grow and reach more people, so be sure to like and subscribe. It really does help me reach more people. If you like some of these videos and conversations we’re having, do check out the other videos while you’re here. Thanks for watching, and be sure to subscribe for more.