I remember a few years into being a manager, I asked my boss, “What exactly is my job?” She told me, “Managing the team is the job.” For years, my technical skills and creativity got me promoted into leadership. But when it was time to hand off those tasks and trust my team, I struggled with my new identity as a manager. Letting go of the hands-on work was not easy, especially after years of being recognized for it. I found myself unsure of my place and what I should focus on as a leader.
Figuring out how to step back without micromanaging was hard. I kept thinking, “I would do it this way,” and struggled to let my team work in their own styles. It wasn’t until after my AuDHD diagnosis that I understood why these changes were so challenging for me. This realization made me even more interested in discussing AuDHD leadership, which is why I was excited to connect with Dr. Bowen Marshall, who works with neurodivergent people on workplace success.
Dr. Bowen Marshall, PhD is a licensed psychotherapist, author, and career coach specializing in ADHD, Autism, and neurodivergent career development.
As part of his work, he helps neurodivergents navigate the complexity of career demands helping ADHDers, AuDHders and Autistics find and create systems, workflows, and leadership styles that help them succeed and thrive at work and life.
Reading Dr. Marshall’s writing about AuDHD leaders felt like seeing my own journey reflected back. We talked about topics that hit home for me—unspoken rules at work, being perceived as warm and competent, and the challenges of masking and code-switching. Our conversation began with a familiar experience: excelling in a technical job and then being promoted into a very different role just because of that success.
The following is a recap of our conversation: AuDHD, Leadership, and Navigating the Workplace — Brett & Dr. Bowen Marshall
The discussion moves into the difficulties faced when trying to avoid micromanagement and the realization that these struggles were connected to Brett’s experiences with AuDHD. Brett introduces Dr. Bowen Marshall, PhD, a licensed psychotherapist and career coach specializing in neurodivergent career development. Brett notes, “Dr. Marshall recently wrote about the struggles of AuDHD leaders, and it felt almost like they were reporting back on my leadership growth as an ADHD leader.”
Promotion and Leadership: Different Skill Sets
Dr. Bowen Marshall highlights how neurodivergent individuals, particularly those with autism and AuDHD, are often promoted due to technical excellence. Dr. Marshall says, “People tend to get promoted into leadership positions because people are like, ‘Oh, you’re good at the technical skill.’ You’ll be great at leading people at that technical skill, not realizing those are fundamentally different skills.”
Brett agrees, observing this is common in corporate structures: “A lot of times what it is, is it’s somebody is well liked or they feel like you’ve paid your dues or they specifically think, ‘Well, there’s no other way to give you a revenue increase for your compensation.’” Both discuss how this mismatch can be a disservice to both the team and the individual.
Pacesetter Leadership and Work Values
Dr. Marshall cites an article from Harvard Business Review about different leadership styles, noting that many autistic colleagues adopt the “pacesetter” style: “You outperform everyone else, right? Your neurodivergent brain is able to tackle things and produce in ways that neurotypical people can’t.” However, this can lead to expectations that everyone should work in the same way, which is often not the case.
Brett recounts personal difficulties in understanding the new role as a manager and the need for clear communication: “It took me a couple years to finally, my boss was like, ‘Managing the team is the job.’” Brett also discusses the challenge of rigidity in expectations when managing others and asks Dr. Marshall how to be more attuned to this issue.
Dr. Marshall shares that technical excellence brought recognition and promotions, sometimes more than managing others did. Brett reflects on the frustration of expecting others to match a hyper-focused work style and the realization that becoming a teacher, not just an expert, was key to effective management.
Unspoken Rules and Corporate Culture
The conversation turns to unspoken corporate rules. Brett mentions, “That’s really what a lot of us struggle with are those unspoken rules because you’re sort of learning trial by fire.” Dr. Marshall explains that unspoken rules often stem from unspoken systems and the underlying purpose of most companies (such as selling a product or service). Dr. Marshall advises, “If you can focus on what does the company actually do that makes money… and who is the person, or usually no more than two people who are really running the show and what do they think, that sets you up for far more success.”
Warmth, Competence, and Navigating Impressions
Dr. Marshall references social researcher Vanessa Van Edwards, noting, “82% of first impressions are based off two factors, warmth and competence.” He discusses the need for neurodivergent individuals to balance being perceived as warm and competent, and the risks of being seen as too far ahead of others in terms of ideas or pattern recognition.
Brett shares the challenge of holding back when seeing a problem developing several steps ahead and discusses strategies for communicating these insights effectively in the workplace.
Masking vs. Code Switching
Dr. Marshall distinguishes between masking (managing arousal, particularly in autism) and code-switching (adapting communication styles for the audience). He shares personal experiences managing sensory responses during therapy sessions and explains the additional energy required for masking.
Brett adds that crisis communication and maintaining a calm demeanor in high-stakes situations also require significant effort and can contribute to burnout.
Workplace Structures and Burnout
Dr. Marshall emphasizes that most companies are not structured for social justice but for maximizing profit. He discusses the trade-offs neurodivergent individuals face and why some choose entrepreneurship for more control over their environment.
FAQ:
Why do AuDHD employees often struggle when they move into leadership roles?
Bowen says “the neurodivergent brain is great at specific tasks” and that people get promoted because of that. As he puts it, those are “fundamentally different skills” from leading people.
What is the pacesetter leadership style and why does it matter for AuDHD leaders?
The pacesetter leadership style is referenced in a Harvard Business Review article Bowen mentions. Most of his autistic colleagues “have fallen into” this style, outperforming everyone else and then assuming “that’s why they promoted me, they must want me to perform at that level to drive in that way with other people.”
What are unspoken corporate rules and why are they hard for AuDHD employees to navigate?
Bowen says “unspoken rules are based on unspoken systems” and that “most companies that you go into, regardless of your role, they’re trying to sell something.” As he puts it, knowing “who is the person, usually no more than two people, who are really running the show” sets you up for “far more success than all of the noise.”
What is the difference between masking and code switching at work?
Bowen says masking is “managing arousal, particularly autism hyperarousal.” Code switching, he says, “takes that you are managing your arousal for granted and you’re just pivoting based on what the audience needs.”
What does warmth and competence mean for neurodivergent employees at work?
Bowen says warmth is “am I friendly, am I not going to hurt you” and competence is “am I trustworthy, do I follow through on what I say I’m going to do and do I do it well.” On competence without warmth, Bowen says: “You come off as, ‘I am coming for your job and you’re an idiot.'”
All information in this recap is derived directly from the video podcast transcript. For more, visit Brett The AuDHD Boss’s channels and Dr. Bowen Marshall’s platforms as referenced in the discussion.