Talking Autistic Burnout with Dr. Megan Anna Neff of NeuroDivergent Insights
In this special interview, I had the privilege of speaking with Dr. Megan Anna Neff (She/They) of Neurodivergent Insights—a neurodivergent clinician, researcher, and author—about autistic burnout and its profound impact. You may know Dr. Neff from their insightful infographics, Venn diagrams, and engaging social media presence—or from their book Self-Care for Autistic People, which is how I first discovered their work. Dr. Neff is a neurodivergent clinician, researcher, writer, and clinical psychologist. They are late-diagnosed, like me, and they also have ADHD and autism.
I’m thrilled to highlight Dr. Neff’s newest book, The Autistic Burnout Workbook, which I’ve already pre-ordered. The book releases in just a few weeks, and I can’t wait for everyone to check it out. You’ll hear Dr. Neff discuss it, and even show a preview in the video below. As we recorded our conversation, she had just received the advance copies.
Understanding Autistic Burnout
Autistic burnout. How do we recognize when we’re experiencing it? What triggers it? How do we manage sensory overwhelm and work through it?
What We Cover in This Episode:
✔️ Recognizing autistic burnout ✔️ Identifying personal burnout triggers ✔️ Managing sensory overwhelm ✔️ Insights from The Autistic Burnout Workbook ✔️ The connection between burnout and masking ✔️ How burnout differs for autistic vs. neurotypical individuals ✔️ The intersection of autistic burnout and depression ✔️ Strategies for recovery and re-entering work post-burnout
I’m incredibly grateful to Dr. Neff for taking the time to have this discussion. Without further ado, let’s dive in.
A Few Key Takeaways from Our Discussion:
1. Autistic burnout is complex and multifaceted. It’s not just about being “tired”—it involves pervasive exhaustion (physical, emotional, and sensory), increased sensory sensitivities, and even loss of certain skills, such as verbal fluency or executive function. Burnout often coexists with other factors, including chronic health conditions, gut issues, and mental health struggles.
2. Masking significantly contributes to burnout. Autistic individuals who mask extensively often experience more intense burnout. The cognitive load of constantly monitoring social cues, suppressing natural stimming behaviors, and adjusting communication styles can be exhausting. Many autistic adults are diagnosed during burnout because their autistic traits become more visible when masking abilities diminish.
3. Burnout is often misunderstood by neurotypical peers. When autistic individuals say they are in burnout or “low capacity mode,” others may not grasp the severity of what that means. Finding ways to clearly communicate the impact of burnout—such as sharing specific challenges like struggling with daily tasks or sensory overwhelm—can help bridge the understanding gap.
4. The link between burnout and depression can be difficult to distinguish. While both involve exhaustion and a lack of motivation, depression often includes anhedonia (loss of pleasure in previously enjoyable activities) and a pervasive sense of hopelessness. Some autistic individuals may also experience non-suicidal morbid ideation (thoughts of wanting to “disappear” or stop existing), which differs from active suicidal ideation. Recognizing these distinctions is crucial for seeking appropriate support.
5. Recovery from burnout requires a multifaceted approach. Effective strategies include pacing energy levels, reducing unnecessary commitments, unlearning internalized ableism, setting boundaries, and incorporating micro-rest breaks throughout the day. Dr. Neff also emphasizes the importance of recognizing and grieving personal limits as part of the healing process.
Dr. Neff’s New Book: The Autistic Burnout Workbook
Dr. Neff’s latest book is a hands-on, interactive guide designed to help autistic individuals better understand and manage burnout. The workbook covers essential topics like masking, sensory profiling, nervous system regulation, sleep, and energy pacing. Instead of overwhelming readers with rigid solutions, it provides practical, manageable steps to improve well-being incrementally.
If you’re interested, you can pre-order The Autistic Burnout Workbook now—it officially releases in March!
Final Thoughts & Call to Action
Thank you to Dr. Megan Anna Neff for sharing their insights in this important conversation. I frequently reference Neurodivergent Insights in my work because of the valuable research and tools they provide to the neurodivergent community.
The Autistic Burnout Workbook by Dr. Megan Anna Neff
Dr. Neff’s new book, “The Autistic Burnout Workbook,“ is a comprehensive guide designed to help autistic individuals:
📖 Identify burnout triggers
📖 Develop personalized recovery strategies
📖 Build sustainable, neurodivergent-friendly self-care routines
This interactive and visual workbook is perfect for those struggling with burnout or seeking long-term energy management strategies.
🛒 Pre-order “The Autistic Burnout Workbook”:
Transcript:
Autistic Burnout: Recognizing, Managing, and Recovering
Brett: Hi, I’m Brett, The AuDHD Boss. Today, we’re taking a special detour from our usual workplace focus to discuss autistic burnout with Dr. Megan Anna Neff (She/They). Dr. Neff is a neurodivergent clinician, researcher, and writer with ADHD and autism. They are the author of the amazing book, “Self-Care for Autistic People,” and have a brand new book coming out called “The Autistic Burnout Workbook.”
Brett: Dr. Neff, how do we recognize that what we’re experiencing is specifically burnout?
Dr. Neff: That’s a tricky question because it’s rarely a simple “this or that” situation. It’s often a combination of factors. Autistic burnout is like a wide net that captures a cluster of experiences: pervasive exhaustion (emotional, physical, sensory), increased sensory sensitivities, and a loss of skills (e.g., difficulty with spoken language, executive function). It’s important to remember that burnout is often accompanied by other things, like food intolerances, gut issues, chronic health conditions, post-viral infections, and mental health challenges like depression.
Brett: Can burnout increase or bring to light more nonverbal struggles?
Dr. Neff: It can definitely impact access to spoken words and make wording (putting words around ideas) more difficult. This is because wording involves working memory, executive function, and motor coordination, all of which require high energy.
Brett: So many of us struggle to be understood, and that can be even harder during burnout.
Dr. Neff: Absolutely. Especially if we’re also masking, which adds another layer of cognitive processing. People may appear “more autistic” during burnout because masking diminishes and autistic traits become more noticeable. This is actually a common time for adults to receive an autism diagnosis.
Brett: What’s the difference between autistic burnout and neurotypical burnout?
Dr. Neff: While some argue there’s no difference, I believe the word “burnout” holds different meanings for autistic and neurotypical individuals. Dara Raymaker’s research highlights the unique aspects of autistic burnout: pervasive exhaustion, sensory issues, and loss of skills. These are often more noticeable and impactful for autistic people due to our baseline differences. For example, everyday transitions like showering can become overwhelming during burnout. Autistic burnout tends to be more pervasive, intense, and global, affecting every aspect of life.
Brett: Is there language we can use to better convey the severity of autistic burnout to those who don’t understand?
Dr. Neff: Getting specific and vulnerable can be helpful. Sharing examples of how burnout affects daily life can create “aha” moments for others. For instance, explaining that burnout means lying on the couch for hours after work, unable to speak, can paint a clearer picture.
Brett: How long can autistic burnout last, and when should we seek increased medical support?
Dr. Neff: Burnout results from accumulated stress over time, exceeding our capacity. When this happens chronically, burnout can become deeply ingrained. If you’re experiencing years of fatigue, it’s crucial to consult your medical team to explore potential underlying biological factors.
Brett: How should we approach re-entry after burnout, especially returning to work?
Dr. Neff: Re-entry can be anxiety-provoking. Consider practical aspects like accommodations, energy pacing, and recognizing your burnout signs. But deeper work is also necessary. This includes addressing internalized ableism, grieving your limits, and accepting them. It’s easy to fall back into old patterns if we haven’t fully processed and accepted our limitations.
Brett: It’s tempting to rush through those uncomfortable feelings and seek a quick fix.
Dr. Neff: Absolutely. Even positive actions like setting up sensory supports can be a way of bypassing the hard emotional work.
Brett: Can this be connected to all-or-nothing thinking?
Dr. Neff: Definitely. It’s a seductive thought to believe that doing certain things will make us feel less miserable, but it’s important to acknowledge and work through the difficult emotions.
Brett: How does masking contribute to autistic burnout?
Dr. Neff: Masking is deeply connected to burnout. It makes it harder to be identified as autistic and receive support and accommodations. It also requires immense energy and involves suppressing natural autistic traits, leading to increased stress and exhaustion.
Brett: I love your analogy of masking being like running high-energy software on a computer. It takes so much more effort for us to navigate social situations.
Dr. Neff: Exactly. And when we suppress our natural ways of regulating sensory input, we have no pressure valve. That’s why we often feel the need to crash and release after a day of masking.
Brett: What are some things we can do to manage burnout in daily life, especially when we can’t simply step away from our obligations?
Dr. Neff: This is a tough question because it highlights the systemic issues that contribute to burnout. However, on an individual level, pacing systems (like spoon theory or energy accounting) can be helpful for managing energy and communicating needs. Identifying non-essential tasks and setting boundaries are also crucial. Reworking rigid rules and self-accommodating can further support our well-being. Incorporating micro-rests throughout the day and layering rest on top of activities can also provide moments of restoration.
Brett: Can you tell us about your new book, “The Autistic Burnout Workbook”?
Dr. Neff: I’m so excited about this book! It’s interactive and visual, featuring chapters on masking, sensory profiles, the nervous system, sleep, and pacing. It provides manageable steps and tools to address burnout, focusing on building agency and pushing the needle forward on self-resourcing.
Brett: Breaking it down into manageable steps can make a huge difference.
Dr. Neff: Absolutely. Focusing on agency and small improvements can help us feel empowered when dealing with something as pervasive and frustrating as burnout.
Brett: Perfectionism and all-or-nothing thinking can also contribute to burnout.
Dr. Neff: Yes, addressing these thought patterns is essential for burnout recovery.
Brett: Can you talk about the intersection of autistic burnout and depression?
Dr. Neff: This is an important question. I’ve experienced both, and they often go hand in hand. Depression can be signaled by a loss of pleasure in things that used to bring joy. It’s crucial to recognize when both are present because they both require support, although the support may differ.
(The conversation continues, discussing depression and suicidal ideation in the context of autistic burnout. Remember the gentle warning about this topic mentioned earlier.)
Dr. Neff: Yes. I think that’s such an important question. This is one of the, the first Venn diagrams I ever made was autistic burnout or depression. ’cause once I learned about burnout, I was like, oh, well I’ve had many episodes of depression and I could go back and say all of those were following an autistic burnout and following a really intense time in my life. So again, it’s not gonna be an either or, but it can be an and of, it could be autistic burnout and depression. And it’s important to know it when it’s both. Because when it’s both, they both need support. But the support could be slightly different. So first let’s talk about like how to know if it’s just burnout or if you’re also depressed. So some of the things that would signal that maybe this is also depression, would be things like, think about your relationship to pleasure. So there’s a word anhedonia, basically it means loss of pleasure. Loss of pleasure. So when you’re depressed, one of the things that happens is it’s, it’s kind of like the world goes from being a color movie to a gray scale movie.
Mm. – And it’s so difficult to access pleasure. So things that used to bring you joy or delight no longer do. So when you have the energy to access your special interest, does that still give you pleasure? Does it not For me, when I’ve been in burnout, sometimes I have a hard time energetically accessing it. But if I’m not also depressed, I, it will still give me joy and delight when I’ve been depressed. No, nothing, nothing brings me joy or delight. Similar, similarly kind of how we relate to self and i, I guess existence in the sense that when we’re depressed, every, everything is terrible. When we look at our past self, we, we, well, okay, lemme backtrack a little bit. So it can be common for autistic people to have a lot of negative views about self because of ableism, because of negative past experiences. When I’m not depressed, I am able to see those for what those are. I’m like, okay, that, that’s a painful thought. Wow. Okay. But I can unhook from it a little bit. Or I can remember times in my life where I didn’t feel that way. When I’m depressed and I think back to times I felt good about myself, I’m like, that was a lie that I, I was, I was delusional. Thi this is what’s real. And so there’s this confidence that depressed mind have has of your life has always been miserable. You will always be miserable. The future will always be miserable. And, and that sense of worthlessness will be so hard to unhook from. And so that, when I think about my distinctions, that’s definitely a huge one, is I can’t access hope about myself or existence. And then also, and this is a tricky one, but so thoughts about suicide, thoughts about not living. This can be a common in depression. It’s not always there, but it can be common. But there’s also some suggestion that it can also be part of burnout. Now I don’t, there hasn’t been research on this. This is a theory, a hypothesis. My hypothesis is with depression, it will be more of the classic, what we call suicidal ideation around, I don’t wanna be here or, or fantasizing about unaliving oneself with burnout, it might be more of what’s clinically called non non-suicidal morbid ideation. I, I just, if I go to sleep and I don’t wake up tomorrow, there’d be relief in that there’s this, I want things to stop. I’m so exhausted, I want the demands to stop. My theory is that that sort of thinking’s more common in burnout and that the more direct suicidal ideation, that’s definitely an indication you should talk to someone. And, and, and probably an indication that that depression is in the mix.
Brett: Yeah. Well, and that makes sense. ’cause in that state of burnout, the exhaustion, the overwhelm, the fatigue, it’s so intense. You’re just looking for any version of rest. And you can make that connection of, well, that’s the only way I’m gonna get the rest is, is through that. But that I can see that, yeah, the connection there.
Dr. Neff: You, you know, it’s interesting. I’m just having this thought now. The first time I learned that phrase, it was in my training, non-suicidal morbid ideation Yeah. Was actually such a relief to me, like, oh, there’s a name for this. Yeah. The name of I, I just wish I wouldn’t wake up. Yeah. – Annon-suicidald then I think because we can feel a lot of shame and fear around having those thoughts. For me, when I have those thoughts now I’m like, what is behind this? Yeah. And, and I get curious about it, like, it is this telling me something about my limits, my exhaustion, my, like, what is it that I’m dreading that I’m waking like that I’m having that thought.
Brett: Well, and I, I feel like having access to that phrase, that wording, it kind of takes, like you were saying earlier, it takes some of the pressure off it releases something because those are two very different versions of, of that. You know, I, I, I saw a therapist, two therapists back where I brought up some ideation and she just kinda looked at me with a blank stare and moved on to a different topic. And I thought, that’s odd. And she wanted to focus on anxiety instead of other things. And had she given me that phrasing, That would’ve completely, first of all, it would’ve relieved me, it would’ve brought me down to level. And I would’ve been able to go, oh, okay, it’s this, it’s not this. I don’t need to panic. So like that’s, we need more of that. We, we, we, or just we need more people to sort of latch onto that so that they know it’s, it is what that is.
Dr. Neff: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it’s interesting, even as I was starting to etch into that conversation, my anxiety started creeping up of like, okay, this is a heavy topic. Yeah. Do we talk about it? And also, I, I think it is an important topic in the sense that this is a risk of autistic people and also living with these kinds of thoughts is a common part of the autistic experience.
Dr. Neff: There’s – This fear out there that if I talk about it, if if I talk about these thoughts, it’s gonna make it more likely to happen. Yeah. But actually, like, you know, being able to talk about with, with your therapist, I, I wish your therapist had circled back to that conversation.
Like, that’s really important and it’s, and we can have so much shame around these experiences as well.
Brett: Yeah. My current therapist was like, totally normal. Here’s how we’re gonna work through that. Yeah. She, she, she made it very cool about the whole thing. So Awesome. She fixed that. Yeah.
Dr. Neff: Well, and that can be hard, right? ’cause we can mention to a therapist, it can increase their anxiety and then like, oh, this is a, a really scary thing.
Brett: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and it’s one of those things, am I allowed to say this? Because if I say this, what’s gonna come after? Are they gonna put me in not? Yep. Yep.
Brett: Yeah. Yeah. We need to normalize this conversation more because I think, I think it would go a long way to helping people who don’t know where to put their thinking on that.
Yeah.
Need to.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Brett: My thanks to Dr. Megan and enough for taking the time to talk with me today. I’m so excited that we got to have this conversation. I love talking with her. I love her podcast. I love her website, her social media, all of the infographics that they make. I absolutely constantly refer to Neurodivergent insights all the time in most of my videos and most of my social media posts, because that’s where I get a lot of my references from. And it’s where I do a lot of my learning. It’s also where I can kind of understand more about my autism and my ADHD and my OCD experience. If you’d like to know more about Dr. Neff’s upcoming book, the Autistic Burnout Workbook, I’ve placed a link in the description to find out more. You can pre-order it now. It’s out in a few weeks in March. And you can also find out more about Self-Care for Autistic People, which is published about a year ago. And that’s available now. And please, when you click and purchase and do all the things, make sure you give it a rating and a review on Amazon and bookshop.org, depending on where you shop. Thanks for watching. If you’d like this video today, please be sure to like and subscribe to my channel and be sure to check out some of the other videos while you’re here. That kind of activity really helps my channel grow. Again, I’m Brett, the AudDHD Boss. Thanks for watching. And be sure to check out some of the other things while you’re here.